Posted on: 04/09/2018

Kevin Busque of Guideline - Simple & Affordable 401k's for Startups

Kevin Busque

CEO - Guideline


Podcast Summary

Kevin Busque of Guideline 401k drops by to talk Startup 401k's. Kevin talks about his experience being in charge of TaskRabbit 401k and realizing the 401k system could be improved dramatically. Guideline is built from the ground up and handles all of its own record keeping & compliance. This approach strips out an entire layer of fees through automation. Guideline delivers high-quality service at low price points.

Podcast Transcript

Scott:

Welcome to Founders and Friends podcast with Scott Orn at Kruze Consulting. And before we get to just an excellent podcast with Kevin Busque of Guideline 401k, I want to give a quick shout out to Kruzetax.com. That's right. We built our own tax website. For all you start-ups out there, it's like Turbo Tax for start-ups, but on the backend, we have CPAs actually doing the taxes. It's really intuitive, it's fun, it's easy. And as fun as taxes can possibly be. So check out Kruzetax.com. Thanks so much. Now, here's Kevin Busque. Bye. Welcome to Founders and Friends podcast with Scott Orn at Kruze Consulting. And my very special guest today is Kevin Busque from Guideline. Welcome Kevin.

Kevin:

Thanks for having me Scott.

Scott:

So Kevin started Guideline, which is one of the leading 401k providers in the start-up world. And we, because we have the advantage of seeing everyone's expenses and seeing what they're spending money on, we know guideline has huge market share. So I was like, reached out. And we talked to Jeff Rosenburger and Johnny and they said, "We'll bring Kevin in." So thank you for coming in and doing the podcast.

Kevin:

Absolutely. Excited to be here.

Scott:

Yeah. So maybe just spend a couple minutes talking about how you arrived at this moment. How did you have the idea for Guideline and when went into that.

Kevin:

Yeah. Absolutely. So I founded another company here in the Bay area, co-founded with my wife Leah called Task Rabbit.

Scott:

Oh. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I didn't know ... That's who you're referring to your wife. I didn't know-

Kevin:

Exactly.

Scott:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Exactly. So yeah, co-founded Task Rabbit here in the Bay area. And at Task Rabbit, as founders do, you wear many hats. And one of them happened to be HR and picking benefits, things that I was not qualified to do whatsoever. Ran the technology side of Task Rabbit. So really had no idea what I was doing in the benefits section of it. But you do what you have to do.

Scott:

Yeah, I do the same thing actually.

Kevin:

So, people would come to me asking advice for 401k, we're probably three or four years in when we added 401k at that point. I really had nothing, no advice to give them, other than, "Hey, the only thing wrong here is to probably not participate at this point." And then that would lead to other questions. And it's like, "All right, which funds do I pick?" "I don't know." I mean, I don't know what Lord Abbott is. Let's just go through it and-

Scott:

How much should I put in?

Kevin:

Yeah, and that's the next one. It's like, "Well, how much should I be deferring?" I'm like, "How much can you afford? I don't really know." So all of those things just kept coming up over and over and over. And I was like, "Man, there's got to be something better out there that will give them advice." And we looked at some other consulting companies that had sort of a personal advice tacked on. And we were willing to pay for it, at Task Rabbit.

Scott:

That's pretty expensive though, isn't it?

Kevin:

Yeah. It's very expensive. And it's flat fees, so you pay for it regardless if people are using it. And that's the worst thing, right. As a start-up, spending our money on a benefit that very few people use. That drives me crazy. Anyway, so we're headed down this path and as I started digging into our actual plan. And our plan is with our payroll company. And I started looking at all the expenses. And I'm a participant in this plan. And I'm wondering to myself, "Why am I paying all this money. I'm literally in a target date fund. I don't understand why I'm paying a percentage of my assets to his company."

Scott:

His fees, right?

Kevin:

It was insane. And the fees were everywhere in this plan. So, we had fees to them as the payroll company and the administrator, what's called the 316 administrator on the plan. And then we also paid another fee which is a flat fee and AUM to this consulting company on top. Not yours. And it was just crazy. And I think I looked at our fees and it was like 2.4%.

Scott:

Oh my god. That's crazy.

Kevin:

Which is insane. And the industry average is about 1.67%, last I checked, maybe last year. Which is still insane. You're talking about retirement funds here. This is not day trading. This is not actively investing.

Scott:

What's the shorthand math on that? Like, for a 2.5% fee, is going to end up costing like $100,000 over the life of 20 years?

Kevin:

Oh no, it's way more than that. It's 4 to $600,000, which is just insane. When you think about it ... And we look at everything in pretty much a 20 year time price, is kind of the average for us. And it's astronomical. So looked into that. And it's like, "Man, I'm going to find another plan." And it was probably late 2014, early 2015, and really there's nothing that I wanted to put in front of my employees. And I was like, "I should just go build this." Task Rabbit at that point was off and running. And it was like, very operational. I was adding very little value there at the end. I wanted to spend my time and build something again. So, after doing that for, being at Task Rabbit for roughly seven years, I decided I was going to go build Guideline.

Scott:

That's amazing.

Kevin:

And my background is in data.

Scott:

So, you had the ... That's really amazing. The technical chops to just go out and start ... Did you start working on it on the weekends or something? Or where did go?

Kevin:

Yeah, well, it took maybe a year of research to unpack the legacy 401k industry. You know this better than most.

Scott:

Well, it's highly regulated right? So it's-

Kevin:

Highly regulated. We have all of them, which is amazing. We have the SEC, the Department of Labor and the IRS. All who want to be friends with you. So it was ... The barriers to entry are huge. The know how on the record keeping standpoint ... And that's a differentiator for guideline. We are the record keeper. Pretty much everybody else, except for the big guys in the industry, but even some of them like VanGuard, they're not even the record keeper.

Scott:

That's a big deal.

Kevin:

That's a big deal.

Scott:

So, can you explain that? Because I actually was doing some research for the podcast. And I saw that you guys actually are your own ... And that's probably the stuff you built, right?

Kevin:

That's the stuff that we spent two years building. So, literally building that product for-

Scott:

Maybe talk about that a little bit.

Kevin:

Yeah, so record keeping, if you think about what happens when you invest assets through payroll. And you do it every pay period, right. So you're spending, you're essentially deferring $100 and buying some sort of equity with it, or bond or whatnot. And to do that you have to keep track of all those trades. And you have to keep track of those trades, you have to keep track of those dividends. But what people don't tell you, is you also have to keep track of all of the notices. We're regulated by something called ARISA. So you have to track all of that stuff. You have to send out notices on time. And if you don't, there's fines. And there's fines from the IRS to the company, to the employee. You have to keep track of all that stuff.

Scott:

And probably as an officer of the company, you're held to some higher standard.

Kevin:

Yeah, absolutely.

Scott:

And you really get in trouble if you don't do it. Yeah.

Kevin:

And we sign up for all of it. So we're, the highest that you can be is essentially. So, we're a 316. We're also a 338 fiduciary, which puts us, makes us do absolutely everything you can for the benefit of the plan participant. And that's a legal obligation that we sign up for. So everything that we do essentially, we have to have that in the back of our mind.

Scott:

Has to pass a conceptual test or something like that, right?

Kevin:

Yeah. Which we actually just did a couple of times. So we just got certified by CFAX, with ASPPA. But that's how we build things anyways, from the ground up. So it started with record keeping. And then just unpacked each additional, I call them hands in the cookie jar. And we get it down to offering the 401k at six basis points. So, instead of one point-

Scott:

Really?

Kevin:

Yeah. It's amazing. So instead of-

Scott:

So, for the audience, six basis points is .06%

Kevin:

06%. Yeah. And that's a managed portfolio.

Scott:

Versus what? Like 1.6?

Kevin:

1.67%.

Scott:

That's insane.

Kevin:

Which is just insane.

Scott:

So did you kind of build, you basically built everything from the ground up to take the fees out?

Kevin:

Exactly. And that was the whole point. So when we were deciding, are we a fiduciary? Do we want to take on that liability? The answer was yes. And that was the plan I wanted from the start. I wanted my people to invest in their retirement in the most efficient manner possible. And to do that, you can't pay fees out of the funds that you're deferring. That doesn't make sense. Right. You've kind of defeated the point of offering this plan, if you're paying out from it. So compound interest isn't as exciting, it's still very exciting, but it's still, you're still paying out of it. So put that on the employee, make it affordable. $8 per person, per month, is a no brainer. It's less than your Gmail account.

Scott:

That's awesome.

Kevin:

Less than a Slack account. And it's a retirement account.

Scott:

I just love how you planned ahead. You've thought about ... Because an easier way to get into the business might have been, oh, we'll partner with this big institution, that big institution. We'll package it nicely. But then you didn't really solve the fundamental problem.

Kevin:

That's right.

Scott:

But you guys did that.

Kevin:

So, people ask me, "What's the differentiator?" It's really our, we are a software company solving a financial problem, instead of a financial company trying to use technology to help them gain an advantage. We flipped it completely. And because we can do that, we flipped the plan completely. So the plan, essentially there's no fee to the participant, other than the mutual fund. And that's the six basis points. So, you literally-

Scott:

Wow. And because you use an index fund, it's, that fee is very low.

Kevin:

Yes. So you're literally paying the same fee, as you would if you went and bought a Vanguard mutual fund on your own direct. So there's no mark-up there whatsoever. And that's unheard of in our industry. Everybody is charging AUM based fees. They call them different things. Management fees or financial fund fees. All these certain things. We don't charge any of that.

Scott:

Wow.

Kevin:

Yeah. It's-

Scott:

Did people think you're crazy? Or did ... How is it getting your first couple customers? Because I can see ... Because all of a sudden, they're like heaven. This is really important. We can't have you mess this up. Are you sure your record keeping software actually works? How did you handle that?

Kevin:

There was a ton of that early on. And we were lucky. We had our product ready probably the middle of 2015. Our core record keeping product. It was super ugly on the front end. I wouldn't say that. My designer will kill me. He's a long time friend too. But, it was not what we wanted in that first iteration. But we signed up a company here in Silicon Valley called Plaid. They're an amazing company. They were our first customer.

Scott:

Yeah. We use Plaid actually for Kruze tax. They're awesome.

Kevin:

Yeah. So they're embedded in our product now as well. And that was just, "Hey." They were educated. They understood what went into a traditional 401k, very smart.

Scott:

Well, they're doing a lot of ... Yeah. Those guys are amazing. They figured out how to interface all the banks, right. Yeah.

Kevin:

Absolutely. So, Zach over there is a, he's a huge advocate for us. He understands what we're doing. They signed up in beta our self. So Guideline has their ... We used our own product. So we have our own 401k there. And then, Plaid signed up in December. And then we launched. We didn't do GA until August of 2016.

Scott:

Oh my gosh.

Kevin:

So eight months worth of pay cycles and all of that stuff. And the reason we launched it in 2015 is we actually wanted to go through the tax process. File the 5500. We had all of that product created as well. So that's why, we did a short planned start in 2015 for both of those plans. Pushed them through and got all of that stuff under our belt. Launched in August of 2016. And we have over 3,500 companies on the platform today.

Scott:

Wow that's amazing. Good for you.

Kevin:

Which is great.

Scott:

So you're through that whole, does it work. And now it's like, hey, we're the industry standard. It works. It rolls. It's easy. You've figured out all the onboarding and all that kind of stuff?

Kevin:

Yeah. So volume speaks for itself. Right. We've done a ton of 5500 filings. We know exactly ... We're actually certified to do the 5500 Efast. We're one of the only 401k companies to be certified for that. Because we start at the bottom and worked our way up, I feel like we just can control everything. Control the experience. And then we went out, and my first hire was actually a lawyer.

Scott:

I saw that.

Kevin:

Which all my investors are like, "What are you doing?"

Scott:

A regulatory lawyer.

Kevin:

Yeah. It was amazing. She's so brilliant. So she came in, made sure we were doing everything by the book. And super sort of, we lean the other way. We call it culture of compliance. And that can be difficult to work with. But it's better her than the IRS or the SEC or whomever. So do it right from the start. But then we had our record keeping certified by CFEX as well. So the ASPPA came in. That was a huge process. We had our Soc 2. And it's our Soc 2. Not like the data center, not relaying ... That's the oldest trick in the book. People would give you the Soc 2 from the data center. That doesn't count. You have to have your own. So we have Google's. We also have ours. And all of our record keeping got certified. And then our Robo advice got certified as well. So we're just sort of rolling at this point. And it's pretty exciting.

Scott:

That's awesome. I really respect good compliance, because we ... When I was at Light House, the Venture Capital fund, we were actually a dead fund. And when Dodd-Frank went into effect, I was the youngest partner in. So they were like, "Guess what? You get to be chief compliance officer." I was like, "What?" And so I learned a lot of the things you're talking about. But it's really hard, but actually it's like those experiences that you talked about being, barriers to entry and things like that. The fact that you guys at Guideline understand this stuff so well, you've lived it for many years, is a huge barrier entry. Because it's really hard to figure this stuff out.

Kevin:

It's really difficult. One, to build the record keeping system. Nobody wants to do that. And even, I don't think Vanguard doesn't do it either. So, it's very difficult. You have to be, you have to have that technology background and be hardcore software engineers to do that the right way. To just go back and tack that on later is such a mess to try and unpack it from the outsourced provider, take all those entries and bring it in house, it's so hard.

Scott:

Also, because it intersects with people's taxes, you have to get it right, because you can't be unintentionally debiting money that should have gone to the IRS or the treasury or whatever it is. The stakes are really high. So kudo to you for figuring this stuff out.

Kevin:

Yeah, and that was just a focus of ours. And we were last into the market, into this 401k market. When I started the company, I didn't know about any of these other companies. Actually, most of them didn't exist either. But it was so funny, because a lot launched right around the same time that we did. But they do different, they do things differently. And they're based on AUM, or they have, they're not record keepers. So it took us a while to get it right, but now we have what I call our unfair advantage. And I think that's just important. Our unit economics are insane.

Scott:

And 3,500 customers. That's companies, not people. 3,500 companies.

Kevin:

That's companies. Yeah. That's the other tricky thing, people.

Scott:

What is ... I remember hearing about you guys also from Gusto. You guys did a partnership with Gusto. And I got an email or something like that. And you were Gusto's fourth largest channel partner. And so, that was actually a big thing for, not just Vanessa and I, knowing about Guideline, but also all the folks out there. Because the clients will ask them also, just kind of matter of fact, what 401k provider should I use. How did that come along?

Kevin:

Yeah. So big sort of learning for me early on was how reliant we are on payroll. 401k has to come from W2 wages. So, where do W2 wages come from?

Scott:

That's pre-tax. 401's. Yeah.

Kevin:

They come from payroll. Yeah, exactly. So W2 wages, you can put in wages into your 401k that are pre-tax. That's called the traditional 401k. And then there's a Roth option on top of that, which are sort of the after tax.

Scott:

I'm totally confused by that, by the way. Maybe later in the podcast you can explain that. I still don't know, understand that.

Kevin:

Yeah. It's essentially, you pay the tax now so you don't have to pay it later. That's called the Roth option.

Scott:

Okay. And you can put more in, or something like that?

Kevin:

It's still all lumped together into the 18,500 a year, unless you're over a certain age. And then you get a little bit more .

Scott:

But it's just better to do it in advance.

Kevin:

It depends on the person. And that's the personalized advice that I wasn't qualified to give at Task Rabbit. People were asking, "I don't know your, what are your plans? I have no idea. Are you making more money now than you think you'll make in 20 years?"

Scott:

Yeah. What's your tax rate?

Kevin:

I can't really help you out. So those are the types of things that we get to build into the platform. It's a great experience. Yeah, exactly.

Scott:

Cool.

Kevin:

We can help people maximize their benefit. So if a company ... 53% of the companies on our platform offer a match of some sort. Which is lower than most people think. They think, "Oh, you ... For a 401k you have to offer a match." You don't. It's a huge benefit in itself, just because of the pre-tax advantage, into it traditionally. So that's not a big barrier-

Scott:

Yeah. That's actually a question ... I'm sorry. And that's a question we get all the time. Because, actually our founders, I think a lot of them would do a 401k sooner if they knew they didn't need the match. Because they think of those dollars as investor dollars and they can't really ... When we finally get to talk to the about it, we're like, "It's not that expensive. You should just do it. And you don't have to match. And later on, when the company is more successful, you can match." But you can just get into business with a 401k and let your team set money aside.

Kevin:

That's right.

Scott:

And actually, that's one of the key things ... I wish I could tell every founder that that we work with. I just don't get them on the phone all the time. But that's a huge take-away.

Kevin:

Yeah, it's really never too early. If you can afford the $8 per person per month, there's some liability that you sign up for. We take on the majority of it. Actually, the company sponsors only liable for choosing us as their vendor, that's it. Everything else we take on. Through 338 and the 316, all of that stuff. So, that's the only one we can't take away from them. Which is really unique to have that as well.

Scott:

I would think though, I mean, I don't know. What liability do you really have if you're just signing with Guideline? You know.

Kevin:

Yeah, that's the other thing. So when we started the company, it's like, "We're going to be a 338. So we're going to control the fund menu. And in the fund menu, we're going to have a retirement committee. And they're going to vet every single fund in there." There's no bad choice in there. There may be like, too conservative or too aggressive, but they're all appropriate for retirement. Where that is not the case in your typical 401k.

Scott:

Oh, because you could pick anything, something like that, yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. And they have 12B1 fees and they're loaded or front loaded or they're loaded when you sell. So, all of that stuff factors in. And if you're not, if you don't have a CFA, you're not going to pull that stuff out.

Scott:

I like how you said that, you guys embrace the responsibility ... I guess, it actually had an analogy with us, in that we are a CPA firm. Like Vanessa is CPA. Steve who does all the taxes is a CPA. People don't know this, there's a lot of regulation that goes on with us, behind the scenes, because we're ... And we embrace that. It makes us better. We don't mess around. You know. Actually, I just put that together. We see the world the same way. So, anyway.

Kevin:

And that's the other thing, right. We're a 338, we control the fund menu. But that reduces our liability. So, is there a liability there anymore?

Scott:

Oh, because you know you're doing it right.

Kevin:

We know. Yeah. Exactly. So-

Scott:

That's a really good point.

Kevin:

For us, it's like, "Hey, we have Vanguard mutual funds in here, they're at three and six basis points. And we don't charge any mark up on them. We can't be over-charging you for fees", which in all the lawsuits that you've seen now, right.

Scott:

So it allows you to sleep at night, basically.

Kevin:

Yeah. Absolutely. We know that we're doing the right thing for retirement accounts, which is great.

Scott:

That's awesome. So then, and on the partnership with payroll and Gusto, you knew that payroll was critical for you or your access to payroll.

Kevin:

Super critical. And we also know the small business. And we're focused on small businesses. We have companies that are one person. But we also have companies that are 6 and 700 people. So they, it's all, it's a huge range for us. But we know that that super small customer, say that 20 person, I've been there, that person office, I don't want to be updating contributions in payroll by hand. I don't want to be ... None of that stuff.

Scott:

We have to do that sometimes when things get messed up. So yeah.

Kevin:

Absolutely. So for us, we need to be turned key. And we're the first ones to do the full integration all the way through, including compliance and tax filing. So we take that burden away from you. And that's sort of our offering.

Scott:

There's so many parallels with what you guys do and how we approach it. That's really cool. Now where is the next stage of growth here? You've got, you seem like you're pretty ... Is it just, you have 3,500 clients and next year it's going to be 6,000? Or what are the numbers you're pulling?

Kevin:

Yeah, so our growth is pretty crazy right now. So we double about every five months.

Scott:

That's awesome.

Kevin:

So, it's growing very, very quickly.

Scott:

You have a lot of hair for having-

Kevin:

Are you sure? Take another look.

Scott:

That growth rate. It looks pretty good. A lot more than I have.

Kevin:

It's definitely ... We're growing rapidly. But I feel like it's, right now it's all word of mouth. Which is great. And some channel partnerships as well. Those partnerships are all integrations, so technical integration partnerships. We're not doing any cross selling. So they're not selling our product for us. They're just making sure that people know we have an integrated experience. And that's a really important distinction. But yeah, we've got some amazing products coming out. Some really focus on the participant, and then some focus a little bit up market as well. But the ones on the participant, I'm a big believer in benefits portability. So if you have a Guideline account, we want you to be able to take that with you.

Scott:

Oh, interesting. It's like the old 401k rollover process.

Kevin:

Yeah, exactly. So, how do you do that? You can streamline 401k rollovers, rollovers from 401k to IRAs are totally a thing. You can do that. So you can see, we'll have an IRA product as well, but we'll also be able to take your IRA and put it back into your 401k just as easy. And that's super interesting.

Scott:

Interesting. I've never heard that before.

Kevin:

Yeah. It's called a reverse roll-over. And we see a ton of it at Guideline. Because we don't charge AUM fees, so if you're ... Even if you're on a betterment or something and you're paying 40 basis points there, but your company has a Guideline 401k, you can roll it back in to the 401k.

Scott:

That's crazy. I've never thought about that. So you can save those 40 basis points, basically.

Kevin:

Absolutely. And then it's a huge advantage, both for the employer and for you, because they're offering you, essentially a free plan. Right. So they're paying the $8 per person per month and you get to, your money gets to grow, we call it growing fee free. So, there's a limit to that. You can't roll over, and this is a technical one from the IRS, but you cannot roll over a Roth IRA back into a 401k.

Scott:

That's because you've already paid the taxes on the Roth, right?

Kevin:

Yeah. So once you're in a Roth IRA, you're stuck in a Roth IRA. So, the advice there is, "Hey. If you have a Roth 401k, leave it there until you go to the next place and roll it over." Because there's advantages in being in a 401k over an IRA.

Scott:

I would assume you have a network effect, too, where if someone say, someone left the Guideline company and went to another Guideline company, it's really easy to transfer all that stuff too.

Kevin:

Yeah, absolutely. And we do a pretty decent, we can do a better job. We do a pretty decent job of educating the participant on what we're doing, so they understand, "Hey. What's a fee disclosure statement?" That's where you can actually go and look at how much fees you're paying in your 401k. So when they do that at the new company and then compare it to Guideline, it's a pretty easy, raise your hand-

Scott:

And then, if you find that, that's your best sales channel, is people changing jobs and then-

Kevin:

Absolutely. Having a champion, having an educated participant, is massive for us.

Scott:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. So it's a lot of using that virality, using the word of mouth, your low fee structure does a lot of the work for you, basically, is what I'm hearing.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Scott:

Do you guys do marketing? Or do you just kind of-

Kevin:

We don't. So right now, we've just hired our first marketer. So she joined us about a month ago. So we're going to start doing a bunch of testing. So you'll see us out there a little bit more than usual. We kind of fly under the radar.

Scott:

I mean, we see-

Kevin:

It's working today. We're not super boisterous.

Scott:

Yeah. And like I said, we actually see the market share stuff. So we actually see Guideline all over the place. And, I think our customer base matches up with you guys really well. With start-ups.

Kevin:

Yep.

Scott:

They're getting into business. They need a 401k. Boom. Done. Nice and easy. And we also have the advantage of seeing how much they are paying, and you're right. It's like really inexpensive. It's actually like a dream scenario for the start-up.

Kevin:

Yeah, that's a huge point for us. Is we're building an access play. 80% of our business is green field. So these are people that have never had a 401k before. So we're building wealth rather than monetizing it. So, that's a really important distinction.

Scott:

That's it. Because the people who-

Kevin:

We don't chase whales, we don't care about AUM. We measure it, but it's a vanity metric for us. It gets it's big PR wins, like Johnny, who sitting here, will love the PR wins from touting our AUM, but we don't need to do that. And we're just super impactful for the participant.

Scott:

Yeah. Dude, that's amazing. I love, I think it sounds like you guys are being rewarded for taking the hard path to market and figuring everything out and building all that technology early on. When it ... There probably was an easier road, but now it's paying the dividends for you.

Kevin:

Yeah, exactly. And that's just, it's our unfair advantage at this point.

Scott:

Yeah. I love it. Well, this has been amazing. Maybe tell, I think if you have anything new coming up, you can entice the audience here.

Kevin:

Yeah, sure.

Scott:

And then also just remind them where they can find Guideline. You know. And how to either get into contact with you or get in contact with Jeff. Or even Johnny. I've met Johnny. He's a great sales person himself. So they can email Johnny directly. Johnny's laughing here next to us.

Kevin:

Yeah, you can get in touch with Guideline a couple different ways. Guideline.com. Just right from the start. It's pretty straight forward. You can schedule a demo on there with a real person. Those are real calendar entries. Real time slots that somebody will hop on Google or whatever with you to show you the product. You can also find all of our fees there. We're entirely transparent. So Guideline.com/funds is our fund menu. Guideline.com/portfolios are all of our managed portfolios. Absolutely everything is up there. And then you can sign up, takes eight minutes, start to finish. If you know you want a 401k.

Scott:

Eight minutes. Wow.

Kevin:

Eight minutes later you can have one. Especially if you have an online payroll, cloud based payroll provider. And we're partnered with the majority of them.

Scott:

That's going to be my new catch phrase to the CEO. It's going to take eight minutes and it's eight bucks.

Kevin:

Eight minutes, eight bucks. That's it.

Scott:

Yeah. That's really good. Awesome. Well, Kevin, thank you so much. And by the way, we didn't get a chance to talk about Task Rabbit, but I love Task Rabbit.

Kevin:

Great.

Scott:

We had a, I told you we had a baby. And, so we're using Task Rabbit constantly in our house to, because I'm not handy, so we hire people who are handy. And that's been awesome.

Kevin:

Fantastic.

Scott:

So, thank you for your contribution to the world. You're change that world, you changed Task Rabbit, and changed the world for non-handy people like me.

Kevin:

I'm doing what I can.

Scott:

And now you're doing, the 401k solution too. So I appreciate it.

Kevin:

Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Scott:

All right Kevin. Thanks. Bye. Page12 | 12

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